
Not ‘sort of’ or ‘just about’… I want to know exactly!
One thing we learned during our baking adventures is to keep an eye on the temperature of the dough. In our micro bakery the temperature fluctuates between 13ºC/55ºF in the winter and 26ºC/79ºF and upwards during summer. Believe me, this temperature difference has a big impact on the end result of your loaf. When you are baking a lot of loaves in batches and want to get consistency in your end product you need to control the temperature of your dough.
Some tough theory
Below is a chart for the L. sanfranciscensis lactobacillus and C. milleri yeast which both are common in sourdoughs. Commercial regular active yeast contains the species S. cervisiae. The type C. milleri is very common in sourdough breads and it does work better at lower temps, but S. cervisiae actually peaks it’s activity at about 35°C (95°F).
A few degrees difference in dough temperature can change the duration of the bulk fermentation or the final proofing a lot. When baking bread with regular active dried yeast, the optimum (for speed alone) temperature is just over 27ºC/80ºF.
Much warmer and the activity of the yeast declines. Above 35C/95F the yeast is effectively dormant or dead. The bacterial activity peaks at 34C/93F, so some bakers choose to ferment at 32C/90F to get a more sour bread. At 21C/70F the activity of the yeast has roughly halved, so the fermentation will take twice as long.
The right temperature is the single most critical variable. The growth rate of for example the L. sanfranciscensis lactobacillus and C. milleri yeast is ln2 / generation-time, i.e. a growth rate of 0,7 is a generation (doubling time) of about 1 hour.
If the generation time within your dough at 20ºC/68ºF is 1/2 of that at 30ºC/86ºF, the organism will also grow 1/2 as fast at 20ºC/68ºF compared to 30ºC/86ºF. So, it’s not the absolute numbers that matter, but the ratio of growth rate to growth rate at optimum temperature.
Practical tips for consistency
To get consistent bulk fermentation and proofing times, we aim for a dough temperature around 24ºC/75ºF. This is a temperature which gives you a nice balance between speed and taste. You can reach and keep the temperature of your dough with the following techniques;
- Invest in a good digital thermometer; We use a CDN DTQ450X ProAccurate Quick-Read Thermometer and a Thermapen which are both excellent, stable and fast.
- Use warm water in the winter or cold water in the summer to get the dough to the right temperature.
- The temperature of the water depends of the temperature of your room and the temperature of the other ingredients. For example our Pain Rustique uses a 50% preferment to final dough ratio and thereby uses 72% of the water in the the poolish. In winter we sometimes need very hot water (up to 55C) to get the poolish and the new flour up to 24ºC. However when using a lower preferment to final dough ratio, water of about 30C is often enough to get to 24ºC.
- Try to keep the dough at a stable temperature. We sometimes put a bowl of dough on top of the Rofco oven covered with a tea towel and on top of a folded towel. Also a preheated and switched off oven to about 30ºC (use a thermometer to measure the inside temperature as your dial on the oven will probably not be very helpful) will work great.
- Some people build their own proofing cabinet, using an old refrigerator or kitchen cabinet. With the help of an old 40 Watt or 100 Watt light bulb (depending on the size of the cabinet) on the bottom of the cabinet (warm air rises from bottom to top!) you can easily heat the inside of your cabinet. You can use a simple mechanical thermostat to switch the bulb on and off to control the temperature.
- When you do not have the means to control the environment temperature of your dough, in summer you can make your dough a few degrees colder and in winter a bit warmer to compensate for the rise or decline in temperature.
- Water and flour have a different thermal capacity. In bread baking this translates to the influence of water on dough temperature being twice that of flour. The dough calculator you’ll find in most of our bread recipes takes this into account.
Want to learn more on calculating the right water temperature?
Check out this posting on the Wild Yeast blog
ALEX says
quick question. how much yeast(cake yeast) is needed to double in 2h at 25C . 2%?
Weekend Bakers says
A normal 2 hour regular tinned bread uses about 7 grams of instant yeast for 500 grams flour. This comes down to 1.4% of instant yeast. You need about 3 times more cake yeast to instant yeast so my guess is with around 3 * 1.4% = 4.2 % you have a good starting point.
eeee says
so what are the optimum condintions making then? apart from temperature
Weekend Bakers says
Check our top tips on the subject:
www.weekendbakery.com/posts…king-tips/
Johnny Richard says
Hi Ed, Marieke and other bread friends around the world, I live in Vietnam where the daytime temperature is 30 – 32° C.
Using trial and error, I have adapted weekendbakery.com’s version of Pain Rustique for my very warm climate. I make the poolish the afternoon before baking (as per your recipe), but I rest it at room temperature for only 5 hours rather than the 12 recommended for moderate climates. I then immediately mix the final dough, autolyse for 30 minutes, then knead by hand for 10 minutes, rest for 40 minutes, stretch and fold, rest for 40 minutes, stretch and fold again and then put straight into the fridge (at 6°C) covered with plastic wrap to finish the bulk ferment overnight. The next day I take out of the fridge, degass and shape then proof at my warm room temperature for about 1 & 1/2 to 2 hours. I then bake in a preheated cast iron dutch oven in my countertop convection oven at 210°C for 20 minutes covered then another 20 minutes uncovered. Delicious results.
Thanks Ed and Marieke for all your helpful advice, and for providing this fantastic sharing forum.
Johnny Richard says
Hi again, Also from trial and error, I have also found that the hybrid bread recipes (like the Pain Rustique–using both sourdough starter and a small amount of commercial yeast) are particularly well suited for baking sourdough style breads in warm climates. The yeast adds some insurance that there will be a good rise ! Thanks again, Ed and Marieke for your great site.
Weekend Bakers says
Thank you Johnny for giving all these very useful tips based on your experience.
It sure will be a big help for other hot climate bakers!
Yogi says
Thank you and thank you!
This article helps me a lot. I’ve been baking several times using both instant yeast and sourdough by following the exact recipe from several sources such as TFL or tartine bread, but always ended up in dense and soury bread.
I live in Indonesia where the room temperature is about 28C-30C. What is your suggestion for me to overcome this problem? Should I reduce the amount yeast/starter, or bulking time? Or should I just using cold water and stick with the recipe?
Weekend Bakers says
Thank you very much Yogi, that sounds excellent of course!
Our first suggestion would be to use cold water and see how this goes. Also try to find the spot and time to keep the dough closest to 28C that would be OK for the yeast too.
If it still goes too fast, you can reduce the amount of yeast. Another option would be to work out a combination of fridge and room proofing.
Hope your loaves will be awesome.
Happy baking & Salam Hormat from Holland to Indonesia,
Ed & Marieke
Ambar says
Hi I have a similiar situation, I live in Dominican Republic and the temperature is 30C-35C. I could do the cold water and the fridge for the bulk ferment but how do I keep the dough cold enough during the last proofing time before baking? I have reduced the yeast, but still the bread gets lumps and ferments too fast. I don’t have air conditioner in the kitchen.
Any suggestions?
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Ambar,
Yes, we understand it is a great challenge and we applaud you for baking in such conditions. First we would reduce the yeast even further and if possible also do the final proofing (partly) in the fridge and bake the bread straight from the fridge. We do not know if the temp drops very far under 30C during the night but we know some people use these cooler hours to their advantage too. Sorry we cannot advice you from our own experience but maybe other bakers will have some more useful tips too.
Good luck with it and happy baking!
mpmoody@doctors.org.uk says
Many Thanks
I was just about to put some dough (temp 27C) in a draw, next to my cooker, at 35C.
As a medical doctor (urologist) I’m used to 37C being normal for humans.
Saved from doughy death!!
I’ve been using CDN DTQ450X for years and is great.
Martin
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Martin,
Glad we were able to play part in saving something, even if it was just dough 🙂
The digital thermometer, like the scales, we could not bake without them. Although you get a feel for the dough and temperature, it is always good to check and to get that assurance.
Enjoy the baking!
Tia Durell says
I love this website.
Weekend Bakers says
Thank you for the love Tia!
Djaka says
Hi,
interesting article.
any tips on ideal temperature for fridge to keep croissant dough over night or a day before it processed, so the yeast won’t work until the dough use ?
Thanks
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Djaka,
If you want to stick to the same temperature as we do, then it is about 6 degrees Celsius / 42 Fahrenheit. If you are aiming for almost no activity at all you should go close to 2 Celsius / 35 Fahrenheit if possible. If you want to shorten the process you can also take a look at our one day version: www.weekendbakery.com/posts…nt-recipe/
Good luck with it.
Haim says
hi, i love your article!
i want to ask about tagila pizza dough,
i read that for maximum taste you need to use 7 gram of fresh yeast for 1 Kg of flour (85% water) and give the dough 48-72 hour on the fridge.
so my questions are:
1. should i give the dough in the beginning to get to 24c and let it double him self or from the start to put him in the fridge in 3c degrees?
2. why in the recipe they ask to use very cold water(with ice)?
3. what is the circle life of the yeast on 72 hours on the fridge, they start low and become more active while the time go or the opposite?
4. when in the process is the best time to split the dough to a balls? and if should i get the air out or try to make the balls with minimum touch for maximum air to stay?
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Haim,
We are absolutely not familiar with this recipe, so we hope you can ask some questions at the person who owns this recipe or has a lot of experience with it.
We suggest to follow the recipe and if it is not clear about when to put the dough in the fridge, we would suggest to let the yeast in the dough get ‘up to speed’ and place it in the fridge after an hour or so. But both choices could be valid.
Very cold water usually is added because with intensive kneading the dough would get too warm. So your recipe sounds like something for lager scale method maybe.
Good luck with it!
Samuel Jaycox says
Is there a way to calculate the bulk fermentation time? Lets say my dough is 75 degrees F with a room temp of 76 degrees one day but the next my room temp. is only 72 degrees. How can I determin the total time for fermentation?
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Samuel,
We do not use something like this or know about it, but it could very well exist. We stabilize dough temperatures, this way proofing times are more or less the same each time and this takes the guessing out of proofing- and bulk fermentation times. For us this works well. We vary the water temp to get the right dough temp.
art says
would it be fair to say there should be a 15 degrees difference between water and flour
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Art, can you explain to us your reasoning and if you mean Celsius or Fahrenheit?
Roberto Barallobre says
Hi:
For rustic breads with levain, what should be the right dough temperature during the second fermentation and just before go to baked it?
Cheers from Brazil
Roberto
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Roberto,
For this bread we stick to a temperature of around 24 to 25 Celsius for both. We think this way we have a good balance between giving the dough enough time to develop taste and speed / time it takes to make the bread.
Greetings from Holland,
Ed & Marieke
Joshua Dickson says
hi I’m in Nairobi Kenya and would like to Learn more about bread making. kindly advice.
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Joshua,
Maybe a local baker will help you or maybe there are some enthusiastic hobby bakers to be found that would not mind you watching and helping them for a day. Maybe there are workshops to be found too.
Good luck with it.
Gav says
Hi along time ago at college we had to take temp of flour and then a calculation to determine temp of water do you happen to know this if so what is it because i have forgotten and would love to know to help when mixing a sour dough
Thanks
Weekend Bakers says
I think you mean the formula where you take 4 x the desired dough temperature minus room temp, flour temp, preferment temp and mixing friction…
Pat Martino says
At what temperature is bread when fully baked
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Pat,
The ideal average bread core temperature should read 93.3C / 200F. For wet dough, like ciabatta, the core bread baking temperature should be around 96C/ 205F. The reason being getting rid of the excess moisture still present in the dough. The excess moisture in the core would otherwise soften the crust while cooling, and with a too low core temperature, the crumb will not get the chance to fully stabilize.
Happy baking!
ed says
I see pizza shops with balls of dough in proofing cabinets…how long can dough be held like that and still be good to go?
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Ed,
As we have seen and understand it, most of the dough is kept in the fridge until needed. The ones in the proofing cabinet will be all used up and fairly quick. The amount of time you can keep dough also depends on the amount of yeast used and the temperature. You can play with that too of course and plan it exactly to your needs.
Ogi the Yogi says
My dough after mixing is 84 degrees, it should be around 78! What can I do to change the temperature? Also how will this change in temperature affect how fast the dough doubles before I can divide it and shape it?
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Ogi,
You should adjust by using water that is colder. Some bakeries even use ice water. For our own recipes we can say that if your dough is the right temperature as indicated, proofing times should also be as indicated, also depending on temperature of your surroundings of course. To judge if a loaf is proofed to perfection, the ‘doubling in size’ is not such a good indicator. In this article you can read why and how to check your dough: www.weekendbakery.com/posts…e-in-size/
Tahnee says
I just want to say as a novice bread baker I find this so informative and quite easy to understand. It’s fascinating how much thought can go into one loaf of bread. I absolutely love it! I look at bread in a completely new light and appreciate fine bread bakers to a much higher degree than before. Thank you.
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Tahnee,
We very much recognize what you are saying. Understanding not only the what but also the why and how can also mean quite a big step toward excellent baking results.
Enjoy your bread baking journey and hopefully our recipes!
Ed & Marieke
J says
When proofing dough in the fridge, is it recommended to allow your dough to warm up before baking it? If so, any suggestions on the length of time it would take, given an ambient temperature of 72-76 degrees fahrenheit? Will poking your formed dough ball with a thermometer deflate it? Thanks!
Weekend Bakers says
Hello J,
It depends very much on the recipe and how much your dough is developed. Many bakers bake their loaves straight from the fridge. You need to check if your dough is proofed to perfection, otherwise it will need some extra time outside the fridge till ready (this can take any amount of time but you could start with about one hour before checking). At the bottom of this article you can read how to best check if your loaf is ready: www.weekendbakery.com/posts…e-in-size/
You can check your dough with a thermometer, but it is always wise to do it carefully. And again it depends on the dough strength how delicate it is. We would not recommend poking a fully proofed loaf.
Errol Botha says
What must the dough temperature be after proofing
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Errol
To start with your dough should be around 25C. After that the challenge is to keep it that way all the way to the last proofing stage. So you need a warm place in your house, use a proofing box or use your oven as one by very slightly heating it for instance.
Good luck with it!
Martz says
I have seen many many opinions and options about required temperature for dough. Most people said is 24º for final dough but others said 20º…..which one is right then ?, the french bakers calculate that on the base temperature which is the sume of room temperature + flour temp and water temp, which they say shoud be 56º in summer and 60º so that will give you 20º final dough temperature.
Then which one is right ??, my question is, what would be the best base temperature to get the final 24º, for example now in my country is like 20º room temperature + 20º flour temperature, then what should be the water temperature so I get 24º for final dough ??. I dont use preferment or sourdorough, just 0.4% of fresh yeast. and I leave main dough in the fridge for 24hrs. before pre-shape and final shaping.
Thank you for your great support
All best
Martz
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Martz,
All temperatures within a certain range are valid, depending on what your goal is with the recipe and how (quick) you want to develop the dough.
There’s a formula to calculate the desired water temperature: water temp = (4 x desired dough temp) – room temp – flour temp – preferment temp – mixing friction.
We invested in a digital thermometer quite a while ago and it really is a great tool to aid you getting your temperatures right. But in the end, especially as a home baker, you have the advantage of usually not being on a tight schedule. We aim for the right temperature for a certain recipe but we can accept that it takes as long as it takes. We think it is even more important to develop the ability to judge the dough, consistency, look and feel if it has proofed to perfection and is ready for the oven.
Good luck with it!
Martz says
Hi
Thank your kind fand fast replay.
My usual method for making bread is to mix and knead dough and put it in the fridge for 24 or 48 hours.
I do 70% to 75% hydratation and 0.4% fresh yeast.
What would you recomend in terms of dough temperature and so ? Right now in my kitchen is 20-21º ando so the flour, so what should be the water temperature then ? taking into account that I leave dough in fridge for the rest of the fermentation.
Thank you once more
All best
Martz
Weekend Bakers says
Our go to temperature is between 24 and 25 C. This also corresponds with the proofing times given in our recipes.
BDeming says
Yeast water temp. I have been making bread for many many years. It takes 48 hours for me to come up with fantastic bread. I do this every 2 days. I never proof yeast if I know it is good. It doesn’t last long enough to go bad. I put masa madre 250g (starter) in a bowl, add all the liquid 250g (except oil), 14g yeast and half the flour I will be using and put the bowl into the refrigerator (40F) for 24 hours. I remove it and softly fold in 100g of very good beer (not bud) and then put it back into the fridge for 24 hours. I then remove it add 375g flour, 15g salt, 20g sugar and 20g olive oil and kneed until i have the texture I desire. Then it goes back into the fridge (40F) for 1 hour to rest. Then I form the dough and let it rise until it is about 1.5X (or just a little more) no doubles about 1.75 hours at 82 – 85F. The bread comes out just like fresh 630g loaf of Wonder Bread. Very very soft to the slice and beautiful. If I want a firmer crumb I kneed it a little more. And for a bagel I kneed it a little more or put in in the Kitchenaid for 7 mins on #2.
I make cinnabuns the same way basically.
So this rocket science about yeast means very little. It is a time thing. It always has been about time and flavour. Note that I use the beer and masa madre for flavour.
Addition to above. The water I add is bottled water I keep in the fridge at 40F. I also keep the yeast and flour in the fridge. I put the water in a nice Pyrex bowl, add the 14g yeast and mix and then add the masa madre and mix and then add the 250g flour. Then put in the fridge for 24 hrs.
Be very gentle when you add the beer. Fold it like egg whites. Like kissing a German Shepherd on the nose.
Weekend Bakers says
Thanks for your recipe. What is the total amount of flour? I calculate 125 (half of starter) and 375 = 500g. On this amount of flour you seem to use 15g of salt and 14g of yeast, which seems a lot, enough for two loafs! Are you sure this is correct? Kind regards, Ed
Zoë says
I’m doing a baking science fair project and I need information for my research paper! I wanna use this website but I don’t know who the author is please tell me. I really need this thanks!
Zoë says
Hi Ed & marieke,
The reason I’m asking is because I need to know this so I can see if it is creditable for my science project. You have the information that I need for my research paper ,but I need to know who wrote it so I can make sure it’s creditable. Not saying that it’s not creditable it’s just I have to check or else my English teacher will say I can’t use this site.
Sorry if you think I doubt that it’s creditable. I know that it is creditable I just have to check.
Thanks,
Zoe_the_zombie
(P.S. My nick name is “Zoë the zombie ” that is why I signed it like that. :p)
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Zoë,
It was quite a while ago but we did manage to find something useful for you we hope. Here’s the link that shows you the article we used as a base. You will also see some footnotes referencing to scientific articles and books.
forums.egullet.org/topic…try1769486
Wishing you the best of luck with your project.
Greetings from Holland,
Ed & Marieke
Zoë says
Hi Ed & Marieke,
This helped me a lot thanks! I will be using this website for research. You are really awesome! If you can point me to any other sites like this one or one like the last one that would help ,because I need at least 5 sites for my research this is number 3! Btw I’m in middle school.
With many questions,
Zoe_the_zombie
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Zoë,
It’s been quite a while since we looked into these type of sites. Good places to start would be the US food and drug administration center for food safety and nutrition. Also books and magazines and encyclopedia on food science and technology. Publications by E.J. Pyler on baking science and technology. A very good book we can recommend is ‘How baking works’ by Paula Figoni.
Hope this helps you to find new entries for your project.
Good luck with it!
Ed & Marieke
Marco says
Hi Ed & Marieke,
Impressed by your website and the vast amount of knowledge and experience you have gathered and shared on your site. Truly excellent and great look and feel of the site as well.
Regarding the topic of the temperature I assume the real question is how you to predict after how much time your dough is ready for baking. Apart from the temperature (and hence activity) the amount of yeast added would greatly influence the pace of proofing I presume. These appear to be the parameters to control. On this matter some questions which aim at establishing some kind of model that could predict the optimal state of the dough before baking. Understood this is virtually impossible, but nonetheless it feels there is a common denominator in all the recipes that would allow for something like that.
1 – Would it be too simple to state that halving activity (non-linear relationship with respect to temperature understood) should double your proofing time? And in a similar way halving the amount of yeast doubles the proofing time as well? I’m trying to find a model that makes it easier to “steer” time of baking and make sure bread is ready to eat at lunchtime. Often find myself having a bread ready just after lunch because of the proofing/baking/cooling in the morning…
2 – In addition to this I’m wondering if the use of diastatic malt impacts the proofing time or whether it only contributes to the structure and flavour of the bread.
3 – the numbers of time the dough is being worked and proofed varies per type of bread / recipe it seems. Is there a rule of thumb for the optimal number of cycles? More is always better (to a certain limit of course)?
4 – distribution poolish / sour dough / dried yeast. If I would want to play around with the % of poolish, sour dough and dry yeast, is there a “conversion rate” that can be applied?
Apologies for the many questions, hopefully you will find an occasion to reflect on it.
Thanks,
Marco
ravinder jit singh maan says
hello / mam / sir
my self chef ravinderjit singh maan in working in Tanzania east Africa as an executive baker and we r facing so many problem in bakery , some time bocz of cooking oil and some time of bread flour . and im regular reader of ur web side and its help me alots of to solve my problem . i realy thanks full to u
with regards chef ravinderjit singh maan
Weekend Bakers says
Thanks for your nice comment all the way from Tanzania!
ranjgbar says
very good .
thomas says
If my ambient temperature is often 30ºC as if often the case, what do you recommend to be the surrounding temperature of the dough for the second proofing before popping into the oven. Also, what should be the ideal dough temperature?
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Thomas, we try to aim for a dough temperature of around 25ºC, this way with a room temperature of around 20ºC gives us good and stable proofing times. When your room is about 30ºC you can use cold water to get to a dough temperature of 20ºC and wait for the room to warm it up to around 24ºC during proofing. This way you get the same as we have, but just the ‘other way’ around.
Brian says
General Mills published an article that will make your calculation of the water temperature necessary to get your dough to 80 degrees F at the end of your mixing process. They did this for professional baker so the added in the heat created by the mixer friction to. This might help you.
www.generalmillsfoodservice.com/~/med…chart.ashx
Greg Morgan says
My recipe says mix up dough and let prove for 12 hours which would be 6 am. The problem is I have mixed the dough but due to a change in my schedule I will need to leave home before 6am and won’t be home till later that afternoon.
So I need to extend the proving time so I can bake it around 6 pm.
I assume that if I put the dough in the fridge (which is about 12 c ) that will slow it down ?
In fact if slow proving means more flavour that should not be a problem – but will it be to cold and totally stop it or cause some other problem ?
At what temperature does the yeast stop working.
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Greg,
No, this is an excellent idea, you should try it and see at what stage it is in after the fridge to judge if it needs some more proofing outside the fridge before you proceed with the recipe. The yeast will slow down a lot in the fridge but will not stop working (see the graph above).
Good luck and happy baking!
Simon says
nb heat does not rise, warm air does. 🙂
Weekend Bakers says
Thanks! That is indeed more correct, we will adjust it.
Happy baking Simon,
Ed
Hugo says
Hi Ed en Marieke,
Mijn probleem sluit een beetje aan bij dat van Henry hierboven, maar mij gaat het meer om de deeg temparatuur.
Als ik een poolish maak en die laat staan bij 30 C (kan niet anders hier; de koudste plek in huis, haha), dan heb ik een probleem om mijn deeg temperatuur op 26 C te krijgen.
Nu kan ik een poolish maken met minder water (80%) zodat ik de volgende keer weer ijswater kan toevoegen. Helpt al een beetje. Kan ook het zout in het ijswater gooien met extra ijsklonten. Gaat de temperatuur een aantal graden omlaag. Maar standaard hier:
4xTdeeg – Tpoolish – Tmeel – Tomgeving – Twrijving = Twater
Bij mij dus: 104-30-31-31-10=2
Kan ik de poolish:
-aanmaken met ijswater? Denk zelf van wel, want de temperatuur loopt snel genoeg op. Geen alternatief dan voor 12 uur staan.
-de poolish in de koelkast zetten; hoe lang gaat dat duren? 24 uur, 36 uur of gaat gewoon niet lukken? Weet ik niet.
-de poolish aanmaken, 12 uren laten staan en dan koelen? Uurtje of3. Koelkast temp = 4C. Gaat poolish kapot? Weet ik ook niet.
-er gewoon niet aan beginnen? Hela!, zo zitten we niet in elkaar.
Het uiteindelijke deeg kan ik in een verticale kneder kort kneden of vouwen, maar in beide gevallen heb ik te maken met een erg warme omgeving. Stenen tafel is ook 31 C. Airconditioning zou maximaal 5 graden uitmaken, maar een air in de keuken….goed voor als je mise en place staat te maken, maar als er wat op het vuur staat biedt dat ook geen soelaas.
Door die warmte heb ik mijn deeg ook in ruim 30 minuten op 200%. Vraag me af of dit ook wel niet te hard gaat.
Alvast bedankt.
Grtjs, Hugo
Thailand
Weekend Bakers says
Hallo Hugo,
We hebben geen kant-en-klare antwoorden voor je over hoe je om moet gaan met dit soort temperaturen, gebaseerd op ervaring. De antwoorden die je zelf al geeft zijn allemaal valide. Zelf zouden we in jouw geval ook met name de koelkast inschakelen om de poolish langzaam te ontwikkelen. Je zegt dat de koelkast 4 graden is, dat is redelijk koud, dus de ontwikkeling zal wat langzamer gaan. 36 uur zal waarschijnlijk een goede eerste optie zijn. Als je kijkt naar het recept van de SFS (www.weekendbakery.com/posts…ugh-bread/) dan zie je dat deze methode ook wordt gehanteerd. Dit recept zou een goede testcase zijn om te kijken wat hier uit komt onder jouw condities.
Er zit maar 1 ding op en dat is een aantal rondjes experimenteren en tweaken om dichter bij het gewenste resultaat te komen. (wij vinden niks doen ook geen optie 🙂
Kortom: beginnen met de koelkast en waarschijnlijk preferment vanuit koelkast meteen toevoegen aan rest van het deeg (zoals bij SFS ook).
Succes ermee en houd het hoofd koel!
Ed & Marieke
Henry says
Hi all, seems like the comments are all related to how to keep the dough warm (i.e. most people are in cooler climate regions). I’m wondering if there are any practical ways to keep the dough cool during proofing? I’m in a region with climate that goes above 32c regularly in the summer and therefore would like to hear some of the practical suggestions for keeping dough (up to couple batches of 3kg dough) cool.
I have try putting ice-pack underneath the bowl, etc, but the condensation from the sweating of the bowl gets water everywhere.
Thank you up front.
Petra Robinson says
I have a Thermapen and also use it to check the temperature of the bread when I pull it out of the oven, makes such a difference to the crumb when you get it right.
I never checked the dough temperature but will do it when I bake next.
Weekend Bakers says
Can recommend it Petra, it really works and helps you a lot while proofing. Also when you know you have the right dough temp the proofing times given in a recipe (our recipes at least) are also very much in sync.
Siesie says
I also check the temperature of the bread when I pull it out of the oven and this is a great help. But how do I check the right dough temperature? Suppose the temperature of the dough is too high or too low, how can I correct this properly?
Siesie
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Siesie
The best way is to have the right water temp and aim at it to be as close as possible to the ideal temp.
If it is far to cold you can use your oven as a warm proofing cabinet to get it up and you can just give the dough more time to develop. Too warm is more of a problem, because the yeast might be effected. You can use the fridge to try and get it down.
Have a great baking weekend,
Ed & Marieke
Bread by Ted says
Hi,
I have read your article with interest. However, one main question came up in my mind related to water temperature to achieve the DDT. If you need to add water at say 40 C (104 F) because you have a cold kitchen, your yeast dies. So how to go about this? Instant yeast needs to be mixed with the dry ingredients as per product instructions, hence it will come in contact with the (too) high water temperature. Now you could add it later after initial mix of flour and water, but will it still mix well?
Greetings from the Netherlands,
Ted
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Ted,
You are right that it would not be a good idea to get yeast into direct contact with water of 40 C or over. Of course we do not do this otherwise our bread would look very different ;).
Our aim is to get to the ideal dough temperature of around 25/26 C. Normally most of our rustic bread recipes use a poolish or preferment of some kind. The next day water is added to this mass. A big thermal mass to which a relative small amount of water is added. This water can be quite warm to get this whole mass, including the extra added flour which is probably also very cold, to the desired temperature. The yeasts in the preferment are already alive and kicking and the rest of the yeast or sourdough is often added after the phase called autolyse so not at the same time the warmer water is added. This way they will also come into a nice snugg environment of around the 25/26 C, which they like best. You can see how it works in our pain rustique recipe for example: www.weekendbakery.com/posts…-rustique/
Happy baking,
Ed & Marieke
Sarah says
I am knocked out by the thoroughness of your brilliant reply. So informed, so scientific and also understandable. Thank you. It will take the guess work out of my bread making forever. Never before realised before quite the mysterious connection between temperature and speed of proof and the taste. All makes sense. I’m off to buy a thermometer and to take the temperature of cupboards ….
Steve Richardson says
Since reading this and buying a thermometer, I have been able to produce much more consistent results… Thank you.
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Steve,
Thanks for the feedback. This is so good to hear because we might be convinced that it all works much more splendid this way but knowing that it works for other bakers too is the ‘ear on the bread’ 🙂
Happy Baking!
Ed & Marieke
Ru says
Do you have a degree in chemistry?
I really do like your composition and format of the page. Very informative!
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Ru,
Thanks! No, not really, but I seem to have a brain that likes this stuff and is always keen on getting to the bottom of things, understanding the why next to the how.
Ed
Marsha Hernoe says
I searched and found a Stove by Bosch that has a proofing setting.
I would say not to purchased it for this if you have a good stove but,if you are contemplating buying a new stove this would be a good consideration. I’m very satisfied with it other than some breads it is a little to warm but mostly works great.
My other option is I have under cabinet lighting under my cabinets and this works great when proofing alot of dough as I run a home bakery. I bring the dough up to tempt under the lights with plastic wrap then flip light off.
Enjoy your post
J. says
Oh my…
Interesting, thanks for posting!
This is the one variable that I do not have under control. Yet. Although I’ve started to do bulk fermentation in a turned on/turned off oven, I still need to get a thermometer to find out what I’m doing exactly. For final proof overnight I put the dough in the cupboard under the stairs, which is cool and relatively constant. Right now I’m getting pretty good results, but of course when the weather changes I’ll have to rethink this strategy :).