Hallo Marco,
Dank voor je comment. Het antwoord is een verhaal van diverse factoren. Het heeft bovenal te maken met gluten (ook de soort) en gluten-ontwikkeling. Zie ook (Engels): www.weekendbakery.com/posts…ut-gluten/

Afhankelijk van de bloem/ het meel en het eiwitgehalte daarvan, het recept, de hydratatie (hoeveel vocht je gebruikt) temperatuur en hoe je het deeg behandelt en ontwikkelt, heeft het meer of minder elasticiteit en ‘uitrekbaarheid’. Daarom kan er veel verschil zitten tussen het ene en andere deeg in termen van hoe vaak en ver je het kunt en moet stretchen en folden.

Als je kijkt in dit filmpje naar het S&F proces dan zie je ook dat dit veel langer door gaat. Dit is met een deeg van 80% hydratatie en bloem met een eiwitgehalte van boven de 12%. Dat kan bv bij jouw Deense chef ook het geval zijn.

Dat ‘samenballen’ betekent dat er geen rek meer zit in de gluten en dat je inderdaad een teken krijgt dat je moet stoppen en het deeg moet laten rusten. Tijdens het rusten ontwikkelt het deeg en de gluten zich verder en zo kun je na een tijdje het deeg toch weer stretchen.
Als je doorgaat met jouw deegje terwijl het niet meer wil zul je merken dat het scheurt en in feite beschadig je het dan alleen maar.

Dank voor je aardige woorden en fijn dat onze recepten je bevallen.

Enjoy the baking and learning!

Ed & Marieke

Hello John,
Thank you for your comment and sharing your thoughts and knowledge.
There’s some info on the web about how much moisture a fruit or vegetable contains in general. So you have a starting point, but because every beet and pumpkin (species) can be different, it is still a matter of keeping your eye on the dough and keeping some water / liquid behind and adding as needed, seeing how the dough comes together. Plus the amount needed can also change with the seasons and flour that is used. Also a matter of experience with the recipe to get it right. Making your own spreadsheet for this is the most excellent way to go about it.

Enjoy your baking with all the bounties of the garden!

Ed & Marieke

Can you tell us what recipe you are trying to make? Large amounts of sugar do take up water and reduces the amount of activity of yeast. Adding basic ingredients after proofing is not a good idea, however sometimes great things are invented by mistake!

Hello Evren,

Yes we know and have seen the panettones from Roy and they look amazing. We are sorry we cannot help you with all your questions from our own limited experience with the art of making panettone. We think it took Roy probably quite a while to reach this level of perfection and we are impressed by his results. When you look at a picture of a great achievement, it does not automatically mean you can do the same, without putting in the hours and understanding all the science.
So, we would suggest trying different routes and make lots of notes and build on that.

Lots of luck with it and enjoy your baking in the new year!

So it is doable. Does all the points you mentioned above works for rich dough.
There are so many parameters with panettone from ph level of Biga to flour type.
Do you have and suggestions?
Should I use strong flour or AP.? Mix on slow ? add candied stuff during S&F?
I make my biga with 3 feedings 3 hours apart. Then make first dough and ferment 12 hours and make the second dough, ferment, bench rest , preshape, rest, shape, proof, bake.
Would you recommend changing flour type as you move along between stages? Like use Strong for biga(protein might degrade over time) , mix of strong and AP for first dough and only AP for the last dough. ?

Or maybe just follow a country loaf like recipe with liquid starter, 70% hydration plus 10% yolk which contributes 5% towards hydration which brings around %75 and butter, sugar, salt
thanks and anything helps at this point.

Hi George,
Thanks for your comment. Why not try the recipe for our pain rustique (with your Dutch oven). www.weekendbakery.com/posts…-rustique/
Also our Sourdough pain naturel is a good one for the Dutch oven. You can see results from other bakers here: www.weekendbakery.com/your-loafs/
The recipe you can find here: www.weekendbakery.com/posts…n-naturel/
Many ways to a good loaf and nice crumb and many factors to consider. But we have never ever read or heard that kneading before shaping is done to obtain large crumb (maybe Stretch and Fold 10 minutes before) we would say you very likely get the opposite result.
Hope other bakers can help you with suggestions for your utensil.

Happy baking

Hi Jon,
We do not eat much fried food, so we do not have any experience with churros. If it is too hard we would firstly suggest to add more liquid to your dough.

Good luck with it!

One of my “go to” breads is a great Honey-Wheat-Oatmeal bread. It’s a generic recipe, may have found it on the “Taste of Home” site, or one similar. I make the dough in my bread machine, then pull it out and form the dough into a loaf, put it in the bread pan, then bake, cool, slice, package and sell. It makes a Large, 2lb loaf, is delicious, but each slice is VERY fragile. They are great, toasted, but I’m worried they won’t hold up to sandwich makings, and, because it is a big and tender loaf, it’s hard to slice it into thin slices.. The basic recipe is 1.5 cups Bread Flour, 1.5 cups Whole Wheat, 1 cup Dry Oats, 1 tsp salt, 1 and 1/4 cup water, 2 TBSP oil, 1/2 cup honey, 2 1/4 tsp yeast, and I add in 1 to 1-1/2 TBSP of Vital Wheat Gluten into the mix. Standard dough making time for the machines is one hour 20 minutes to one hour thirty minutes, depending on the machine. I’ve been baking the loaf in the oven at 375 degrees for 30-35 minutes, but I increased that time to 40 minutes the last time, and the texture is still fragile. Sooo, I’m wondering what might be making it so delicate..

(I make a fairly basic “White Bread” recipe, same method, dough in the bread machine, then the rest as above, and it turns out very nice, if eventually, a little dry. Ditto, a whole wheat bread with added nuts and dried fruit, and it comes out fine, too.)

Concurrently, I was making another bread recipe, which called for a BUNCH of flour to make 4-5 one-pound loaves, (mix of nearly 7 cups all purpose flour, 3 cups wheat flour) was not able to finish working on it at midnight, so (quickly) learned about refrigerating the dough, which I did for that batch. It turned out fine, though during the mixing process, and then trying to divide it into the five loaves, the dough was a tough, gummy, mess!.

So, I’m wondering if refrigerating the Honey-Wheat-Oatmeal bread after the dough making time might help its structure? If so, for how long? Or….?

And, when using nearly 10 cups of flour for the five-loaf recipe, is there some method which can avoid having it become tough-gummy, and trying to lunge out of the mixing bowl? (a 300 Watt Kitchen Aid Mixer w/ dough hook.). This recipe also calls for adding 2 cups various chopped vegies, but their addition didn’t help the consistency of the dough very much.

(The final product was great, and I sold out easily yesterday afternoon! Will be making it again.)

I know these are long, complicated questions. I appreciate any help you can (are willing to) give. Thank you for the fabulous info and recipes you have on this site. Oh yes, off to go look at the recipes you linked to, above.

Susi.

Hi, this is because of the no knead process, this will give a more gum like texture. Try a more ‘regular’ bread recipe like our Pain Rustique (is on this website), this process (a two step process, polish the day before and a final dough) gives a much less gum like texture.

Sorry, but we do not understand your questions. Kind regards.